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	<title>Comments for Mark Stout Photography - Photoshoot News &amp; Models</title>
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	<description>Stay up on photoshoot news and hot new fitness models photographed by Mark Stout</description>
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		<title>Comment on The Time Magazine Cover Photo &#8220;Ripoff&#8221; by markstout</title>
		<link>http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/the-time-magazine-cover-photo-ripoff/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>markstout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/?p=281#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Clients pay a high price for the cheap microstock images.  Despite millions of them, they all tend to look the same.  I am stunned at the number of brochures, websites and billboards that look just like every other billboard, website and brochure due to the images selected.  This is certainly not a way to get your business noticed.  What is the cost in terms of lost business?

Microstock images also frequently tend to pop up in uses that are quite embarrassing to someone else using the same image.  The cost of this cannot be calculated.

I do think photographers are starting to realize microstock is the fast track to bankruptcy and the better ones are avoiding it... and I think image clients who were once thrilled to have such cheap images available are now starting to realize the risks associated with using them.
Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clients pay a high price for the cheap microstock images.  Despite millions of them, they all tend to look the same.  I am stunned at the number of brochures, websites and billboards that look just like every other billboard, website and brochure due to the images selected.  This is certainly not a way to get your business noticed.  What is the cost in terms of lost business?</p>
<p>Microstock images also frequently tend to pop up in uses that are quite embarrassing to someone else using the same image.  The cost of this cannot be calculated.</p>
<p>I do think photographers are starting to realize microstock is the fast track to bankruptcy and the better ones are avoiding it&#8230; and I think image clients who were once thrilled to have such cheap images available are now starting to realize the risks associated with using them.<br />
Mark</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Time Magazine Cover Photo &#8220;Ripoff&#8221; by Tim</title>
		<link>http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/the-time-magazine-cover-photo-ripoff/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/?p=281#comment-227</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been looking into all this with a little more vigour recently since I&#039;m a photographer who works mainly on commissions (and those are falling because of microstock and the recession).

To me, the maths doesn&#039;t add up for the client particularly well. If a designer buys an image for a client web site, they might easily pay something like $10 per image if they&#039;re not a high-volume customer. The iStockphoto T&amp;Cs stipulate that the image can only be used in one media for one client, so let&#039;s say a web page use. The client isn&#039;t allowed to use that image for any other media (printed or electronic). The image is generic, non-exclusive and not specifically tailored to the client.

When I do a day&#039;s commissioned work, producing bespoke, unique and exclusive imagery for the client, it tends to work out at around £45 per image (including all costs). Even this can vary, but I&#039;m using general figures here to illustrate the point. My client is then licensed to use that image for ALL their uses (3rd-parties excluded of course). So if they use one of the images for web, e-newsletter, brochure, annual report, whatever they can think of really (I tend to exclude advertising use unless agreed and built into the fees) the cost of the individual images tumbles to less than the cost of a microstock image.

The problem I&#039;m having is getting designers to realise this and convincing them that they should be selling this concept to their clients. Wherever possible I approach clients direct of course, but designers are often the first point of contact with a creative professional that a client will have.

Whatever the microstock apologists say, microstock is also eroding the creative commissioned market because it&#039;s a great way for lazy or unimaginative web and graphic designers to fill their designs with &quot;cheap&quot; eyecandy.

Let&#039;s not also forget the environmental impact of tens of millions of image files sitting on servers which have to run 24/7, many of which will never even be downloaded or used. Not forgetting the harm of tens of thousands of photographers driving out to shoot pictures which statistically speaking, nobody wants.

At least when I turn on my engine, I know I&#039;m off to take pictures somebody wants and needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been looking into all this with a little more vigour recently since I&#8217;m a photographer who works mainly on commissions (and those are falling because of microstock and the recession).</p>
<p>To me, the maths doesn&#8217;t add up for the client particularly well. If a designer buys an image for a client web site, they might easily pay something like $10 per image if they&#8217;re not a high-volume customer. The iStockphoto T&amp;Cs stipulate that the image can only be used in one media for one client, so let&#8217;s say a web page use. The client isn&#8217;t allowed to use that image for any other media (printed or electronic). The image is generic, non-exclusive and not specifically tailored to the client.</p>
<p>When I do a day&#8217;s commissioned work, producing bespoke, unique and exclusive imagery for the client, it tends to work out at around £45 per image (including all costs). Even this can vary, but I&#8217;m using general figures here to illustrate the point. My client is then licensed to use that image for ALL their uses (3rd-parties excluded of course). So if they use one of the images for web, e-newsletter, brochure, annual report, whatever they can think of really (I tend to exclude advertising use unless agreed and built into the fees) the cost of the individual images tumbles to less than the cost of a microstock image.</p>
<p>The problem I&#8217;m having is getting designers to realise this and convincing them that they should be selling this concept to their clients. Wherever possible I approach clients direct of course, but designers are often the first point of contact with a creative professional that a client will have.</p>
<p>Whatever the microstock apologists say, microstock is also eroding the creative commissioned market because it&#8217;s a great way for lazy or unimaginative web and graphic designers to fill their designs with &#8220;cheap&#8221; eyecandy.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not also forget the environmental impact of tens of millions of image files sitting on servers which have to run 24/7, many of which will never even be downloaded or used. Not forgetting the harm of tens of thousands of photographers driving out to shoot pictures which statistically speaking, nobody wants.</p>
<p>At least when I turn on my engine, I know I&#8217;m off to take pictures somebody wants and needs.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Time Magazine Cover Photo &#8220;Ripoff&#8221; by smokeater</title>
		<link>http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/the-time-magazine-cover-photo-ripoff/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>smokeater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/?p=281#comment-225</guid>
		<description>Economic theory suggests that in a market which has unlimited supply - in other words perpetually growing global stock image libraries - pricing will approach marginal costs.  Marginal costs of course do not take into account photographer equipment and overheads or a good enough salary to make a living.  In essence, microstock pricing is pricing based on marginal cost.

Again, in economic theory, the way to get out of this is to provide a scarce product that cannot be easily replicated.  I don&#039;t even think that great creativity can help you be a scarce commodity in the stock industry anymore - and it will only get harder.  Stock photography is doomed - success for most photographers will result from supplying the market with scarce goods, such as assignment work related to events and situations that cannot be replicated by anyone else or which demand exclusivity, and I recommend this kind of thinking for budding photographers. A classic example is wedding photography - I would hate to do it, but people recognise the value of capturing their unique event.  That unique event is scarce and can therefore command more money.  There are plenty of other types of photography where this idea of scarcity applies so there is still hope for photographers - it&#039;s just not in stock!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Economic theory suggests that in a market which has unlimited supply &#8211; in other words perpetually growing global stock image libraries &#8211; pricing will approach marginal costs.  Marginal costs of course do not take into account photographer equipment and overheads or a good enough salary to make a living.  In essence, microstock pricing is pricing based on marginal cost.</p>
<p>Again, in economic theory, the way to get out of this is to provide a scarce product that cannot be easily replicated.  I don&#8217;t even think that great creativity can help you be a scarce commodity in the stock industry anymore &#8211; and it will only get harder.  Stock photography is doomed &#8211; success for most photographers will result from supplying the market with scarce goods, such as assignment work related to events and situations that cannot be replicated by anyone else or which demand exclusivity, and I recommend this kind of thinking for budding photographers. A classic example is wedding photography &#8211; I would hate to do it, but people recognise the value of capturing their unique event.  That unique event is scarce and can therefore command more money.  There are plenty of other types of photography where this idea of scarcity applies so there is still hope for photographers &#8211; it&#8217;s just not in stock!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Product Shoot Makes a Splash at Oh La La Mag by Cassie</title>
		<link>http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/product-shoot-makes-a-splash-at-oh-la-la-mag/#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator>Cassie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/?p=135#comment-219</guid>
		<description>Joshua...

I have to tell you... I brag that I actually was this sexy guys ex-girlfriend;)  drunken reply:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua&#8230;</p>
<p>I have to tell you&#8230; I brag that I actually was this sexy guys ex-girlfriend;)  drunken reply:)</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Dangerous New Marketing Paradigm&#8230; Blogs, Magazines, Fashion Designers, Agencies and Fools by Mands</title>
		<link>http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/a-dangerous-new-marketing-paradigm-blogs-magazines-fashion-designers-agencies-and-fools/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Mands</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-204</guid>
		<description>Thank you so much for a timely and honest reminder about how we can be easily ripped off by those who should know better, but simply don&#039;t care.  They don&#039;t give their work away for free, and their employees expect a wage....why should we expect any less.... One of our members linked to this post....hence the traffic you may see from &quot;Beyond&quot; and it was a timely reminder as to why the Rupert Murdoch&#039;s and other big name agencies are so well-off!  
Some don&#039;t even trade free advertising for the images now...they just manipulate you by telling you if you don&#039;t want to supply the images, then they can find another 50 photogs that will! ...wonder if they would be as high a standard?  Great images sell magazines....great images take time and money to make, and deserve their reward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you so much for a timely and honest reminder about how we can be easily ripped off by those who should know better, but simply don&#8217;t care.  They don&#8217;t give their work away for free, and their employees expect a wage&#8230;.why should we expect any less&#8230;. One of our members linked to this post&#8230;.hence the traffic you may see from &#8220;Beyond&#8221; and it was a timely reminder as to why the Rupert Murdoch&#8217;s and other big name agencies are so well-off!<br />
Some don&#8217;t even trade free advertising for the images now&#8230;they just manipulate you by telling you if you don&#8217;t want to supply the images, then they can find another 50 photogs that will! &#8230;wonder if they would be as high a standard?  Great images sell magazines&#8230;.great images take time and money to make, and deserve their reward.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fashion Editorial in Fantastics Mag by Sandra R</title>
		<link>http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/fashion-editorial-in-fantastics-mag/#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandra R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-201</guid>
		<description>Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post... nice! I love your blog.  :) Cheers! Sandra. R.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post&#8230; nice! I love your blog.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Cheers! Sandra. R.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Dangerous New Marketing Paradigm&#8230; Blogs, Magazines, Fashion Designers, Agencies and Fools by Josh Caple</title>
		<link>http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/a-dangerous-new-marketing-paradigm-blogs-magazines-fashion-designers-agencies-and-fools/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Caple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-195</guid>
		<description>Quote from OP- 
&lt;i&gt;&quot;The internet is a great innovation. But it does need to start paying its way in terms of the content it depends on. This will happen only if photographers demand payment from the internet publications and/or the designers who are using them (any you) in lieu of taking out print ads.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Couldn&#039;t agree more!

Billy- you are absolutely right that the market is changing. It has been changing for a long time and will continue to do so for a long time to come. 
This means that yes, we do have to change the way that we creatives operate our businesses to make the most of these changes. 
However! to pretend that images are worth less just because they are now easier to steal is the crippling blow to many would-be professionals. For years so many photographers have licensed web usage at discounted rates or just tacked them on the bottom of a print license for free. To be fair, many clients grounded in traditional media have taken the electronic game seriously enough to pull budget however it is photographers&#039; willingness to let clients downplay the value of electronic rights that has set a very unfortunate precedent for all of us.
Thankfully as more &amp; more of my traditional clients (&amp; potential clients) are catching up &amp; finally understanding the true value of being online (not just having a website, but having a great web presence as a financial PRIORITY) the budgets are magically reappearing. &lt;b&gt;There is no reason that web rates should be lower except that we have allowed the perception that that they should be lower.&lt;/b&gt; 
Based on clients&#039; lowered overheads, increasing &amp; more targeted ad exposure &amp; a more effective consumer engagment that the e-medium facilitates, online marketing techniques are yielding much larger profit margins... so why should the images be worth less?
If you want run a healthy business, as &lt;i&gt;markstout&lt;/i&gt; says, then it is up to YOU to know the real value of your work &amp; take it seriously. 

-J.

--
Manufacturers Shift Marketing Dollars Online- 
http://www.adweek.com/aw/content_display/data-center/research/e3i33318fd8458cbc088591e219b86fe596

Shops Spend Less on Traditional Media-
http://www.adweek.com/aw/content_display/data-center/research/e3i111888fc4afd5a6a3a5fa5d9211c0d70

A short &amp; entertaining video demonstrating how clients attempt to dictate the value of our work. 
http://www.joshcaple.com/blog/?p=212</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote from OP-<br />
<i>&#8220;The internet is a great innovation. But it does need to start paying its way in terms of the content it depends on. This will happen only if photographers demand payment from the internet publications and/or the designers who are using them (any you) in lieu of taking out print ads.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Couldn&#8217;t agree more!</p>
<p>Billy- you are absolutely right that the market is changing. It has been changing for a long time and will continue to do so for a long time to come.<br />
This means that yes, we do have to change the way that we creatives operate our businesses to make the most of these changes.<br />
However! to pretend that images are worth less just because they are now easier to steal is the crippling blow to many would-be professionals. For years so many photographers have licensed web usage at discounted rates or just tacked them on the bottom of a print license for free. To be fair, many clients grounded in traditional media have taken the electronic game seriously enough to pull budget however it is photographers&#8217; willingness to let clients downplay the value of electronic rights that has set a very unfortunate precedent for all of us.<br />
Thankfully as more &amp; more of my traditional clients (&amp; potential clients) are catching up &amp; finally understanding the true value of being online (not just having a website, but having a great web presence as a financial PRIORITY) the budgets are magically reappearing. <b>There is no reason that web rates should be lower except that we have allowed the perception that that they should be lower.</b><br />
Based on clients&#8217; lowered overheads, increasing &amp; more targeted ad exposure &amp; a more effective consumer engagment that the e-medium facilitates, online marketing techniques are yielding much larger profit margins&#8230; so why should the images be worth less?<br />
If you want run a healthy business, as <i>markstout</i> says, then it is up to YOU to know the real value of your work &amp; take it seriously. </p>
<p>-J.</p>
<p>&#8211;<br />
Manufacturers Shift Marketing Dollars Online-<br />
<a href="http://www.adweek.com/aw/content_display/data-center/research/e3i33318fd8458cbc088591e219b86fe596" rel="nofollow">http://www.adweek.com/aw/content_display/data-center/research/e3i33318fd8458cbc088591e219b86fe596</a></p>
<p>Shops Spend Less on Traditional Media-<br />
<a href="http://www.adweek.com/aw/content_display/data-center/research/e3i111888fc4afd5a6a3a5fa5d9211c0d70" rel="nofollow">http://www.adweek.com/aw/content_display/data-center/research/e3i111888fc4afd5a6a3a5fa5d9211c0d70</a></p>
<p>A short &amp; entertaining video demonstrating how clients attempt to dictate the value of our work.<br />
<a href="http://www.joshcaple.com/blog/?p=212" rel="nofollow">http://www.joshcaple.com/blog/?p=212</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on A Dangerous New Marketing Paradigm&#8230; Blogs, Magazines, Fashion Designers, Agencies and Fools by nelsond9</title>
		<link>http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/a-dangerous-new-marketing-paradigm-blogs-magazines-fashion-designers-agencies-and-fools/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>nelsond9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-194</guid>
		<description>thanks&lt;a href=&quot;http://twib.co.cc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;!&lt;/a&gt; for the information is very complete and your site is very interesting, I will visit your site more often!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks<a href="http://twib.co.cc" rel="nofollow">!</a> for the information is very complete and your site is very interesting, I will visit your site more often!</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Dangerous New Marketing Paradigm&#8230; Blogs, Magazines, Fashion Designers, Agencies and Fools by markstout</title>
		<link>http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/a-dangerous-new-marketing-paradigm-blogs-magazines-fashion-designers-agencies-and-fools/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>markstout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-190</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re are missing the point here - &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;completely!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;  There is no statement about images being worth hundreds of thousands on the net.  Web rates are lower than other markets... but it is still a use of your images and the photographer needs to be compensated for EACH use of his work if he is to survive.  

Nor is this post about stock photography - it is about the unique images you refer to being used &lt;em&gt;in violation of copyright laws&lt;/em&gt; and what photographers are doing to themselves when they fail to educate themselves on licensing practices (or worse, give their work away free), and the value of the work.  Yes, you can steal an image of a whale off the internet free, but if you make the mistake of stealing one that belongs to a professional who protects his copyrights, you will find it might have been cheaper to fund an excursion out to the deep seas for some whaling photos of your own.  More and more photographers are doing this.  And photographer who fails to do that will fail no matter what business model he/she engages in.  If you don&#039;t understand and protect the value of your work, no one else will either. There is no shortage of those out there who will take advantage of a photographer&#039;s lack of business knowledge.

I have a number of links off to the right with articles and organizations who will help you find the information you need to profit as a photographer in this changing environment. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re are missing the point here &#8211; <em><strong>completely!</strong></em>  There is no statement about images being worth hundreds of thousands on the net.  Web rates are lower than other markets&#8230; but it is still a use of your images and the photographer needs to be compensated for EACH use of his work if he is to survive.  </p>
<p>Nor is this post about stock photography &#8211; it is about the unique images you refer to being used <em>in violation of copyright laws</em> and what photographers are doing to themselves when they fail to educate themselves on licensing practices (or worse, give their work away free), and the value of the work.  Yes, you can steal an image of a whale off the internet free, but if you make the mistake of stealing one that belongs to a professional who protects his copyrights, you will find it might have been cheaper to fund an excursion out to the deep seas for some whaling photos of your own.  More and more photographers are doing this.  And photographer who fails to do that will fail no matter what business model he/she engages in.  If you don&#8217;t understand and protect the value of your work, no one else will either. There is no shortage of those out there who will take advantage of a photographer&#8217;s lack of business knowledge.</p>
<p>I have a number of links off to the right with articles and organizations who will help you find the information you need to profit as a photographer in this changing environment.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Dangerous New Marketing Paradigm&#8230; Blogs, Magazines, Fashion Designers, Agencies and Fools by Billy Hunt</title>
		<link>http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/a-dangerous-new-marketing-paradigm-blogs-magazines-fashion-designers-agencies-and-fools/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markstoutphotography.wordpress.com/?p=359#comment-189</guid>
		<description>I think its well and good to say our images are worth hundreds and thousands of dollars on the Internet, but it doesn&#039;t seem very realistic.  The Internet makes it ludicrously easy to steal information, and pretending an image is worth what it was before the Internet seems a little unrealistic.  Look at the recording industry.  Their business model is to sue their customers, and they are losing their shirts, while tons of money is being made in merchandising and touring.  I think as photographers, we need to find ways to make money off of the service of photography, as opposed to the product of photography.  

It used to be, if you loved photographing whales, and were good enough, you could sell whale images for a pretty good price, one that could cover your costs.  Well, I can get a whale photo for a dollar legally, and free if I ignore the law (importantly, its quicker to get it free).  

The market is changing, and we need to realise it.  As for me, I am focused on selling my services, not products, and making my work unique so people will want to continue to work with me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think its well and good to say our images are worth hundreds and thousands of dollars on the Internet, but it doesn&#8217;t seem very realistic.  The Internet makes it ludicrously easy to steal information, and pretending an image is worth what it was before the Internet seems a little unrealistic.  Look at the recording industry.  Their business model is to sue their customers, and they are losing their shirts, while tons of money is being made in merchandising and touring.  I think as photographers, we need to find ways to make money off of the service of photography, as opposed to the product of photography.  </p>
<p>It used to be, if you loved photographing whales, and were good enough, you could sell whale images for a pretty good price, one that could cover your costs.  Well, I can get a whale photo for a dollar legally, and free if I ignore the law (importantly, its quicker to get it free).  </p>
<p>The market is changing, and we need to realise it.  As for me, I am focused on selling my services, not products, and making my work unique so people will want to continue to work with me.</p>
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